Posted on 10 March 2010.
Stefanos Polyzoides addressing community at 1st planning meeting. photo by Joe Moore
So did you attend? What were your thoughts and observations?
I also will have a synopsis for a community member on the community advisory committee. So stay tuned.
As a side note, I went to Moule & Polyzoides website just now and saw this new realease with a pretty cool transformation of a street-scape in Lancaster.
Posted in localComments (3)
Posted on 04 March 2010.
Specific/Community Plan Areas
The contract for the Fulton Corridor Specific Plan and the Downtown Neighborhoods Community Plan were approved by Fresno City Council on January 28, 2010. Now the sleeves get rolled up and the hard work begins. The contract allots $900,000 in Community Block Grant funds (I believe there are some other minor funding sources) this year in a total contract of $2.3 million with Moule & Polyzoides | Architects and Urbanists along with other specialized consultants.
If you read Craig Scharton’s meeting calendar blog then you’ll have seen that preparation meetings for the spacific plan have already been occurring. They have even launched a new website [http://fresnodowntownplans.com] “This website will contain a variety of information pertaining to the development projects, include details about public involvement process and how you can help shape Downtown Fresno.”
The site announces the first of the public meetings:
TUESDAY
March 9th
4:00PM – 6:45PM
Downtown Neighborhoods Community Advisory Committee Meeting #1
Location: The Grand, 1401 Fulton St, Fresno
In this first Community Advisory Committee Meeting, the consultant will outline the planning process that lies ahead, describe some of its initial findings, and give the Committee and the public a chance to share thoughts regarding priorities, issues, and concerns for the Downtown Neighborhoods Community Plan area.TUESDAY
March 9th
7:00PM – 8:45PM
Fulton Corridor Specific Plan Community Advisory Committee #1
Location: The Grand, 1401 Fulton St, Fresno
In this first Community Advisory Committee Meeting, the consultant will outline the planning process that lies ahead, describe some of its initial findings, and give the Committee and the public a chance to share thoughts regarding priorities, issues, and concerns for the Fulton Corridor Specific Plan area.
This blogger will be out in Portland at the National Charrette Institute training. However, we have arranged for a corespondent that will be covering Fulton Corridor Specific Plan Community Advisory Committee. If you are on the Downtown Neighborhoods Community Advisory Committee or plan on attending most the meetings, then consider being our corespondent as well. If interested please contact us.
What are your hopes and aspiration for the Specific/Community plans? Post them in the comments below.
I’ll start. I ride my bike to my office in the Cultural Arts District from my home in Tower. I would see some of the weird intersections redesigned for better flow and safety from the pedestrian and cyclist perspective. One in particular is the Divisadero, H Street, Weber intersection.
Many the announcements and outreach about the plans are pretty focused on investment. Investment will revitalize downtown, investment will disperse alleviate concentrated poverty. I would like to see equal or more attention on the people. I guess it is a different perspective or approach. I think downtown should be a healthy inviting place for people and people will bring money/investment. Feel free to disagree, I would like to have that discussion.
Posted in localComments (3)
Posted on 02 February 2010.
On the front page of Saturday’s (1/29/10) Fresno Bee there ran another success story of downtown revitalization. However, after I read through the story, there were a few key details that were left out regarding the San Joaquin Light & Power Corporation Building aka International Trade Center.
Both in the article and at the State of the Downtown Breakfast earlier that week, Cliff Tutelian was praised for the investment he’s done over the years in downtown Fresno. Specifically, according the the Fresno Bee, he “invested more than $10 million in the landmark International Trade Center in downtown Fresno, preserving what original 1920s-era architectural features he could and replicating those he couldn’t.”
However, not mentioned in the article is the architect whose specialization in historic preservation made the project a reality, Chis Johnson AIA. It is common for Fresno news to forget to mention the architect, so that is to be expected. But the thing that caught me more off guard is that other key facts of the story were glossed over by the Fresno Bee and mayor Ashley Swearengin in their praise of Cliff Tutilian and the beautiful International Trade Center.
The fact is that Tutilian refused to pay the Johnson Architecture fees for completing the design and construction documents for the renovation. It had even gotten the the point that Johnson Architecture had to fill suit against Tutilian & Company for non payment of fees.
In classic litigation fashion, Tutilain filed a counter suit against Johnson for failing to complete services. If you have been in the building, you’d be hard pressed to argue that it is incomplete or that there were any aspect of the design that the architect didn’t execute with expertise.
So you can see that I was simple baffled hearing all this praise while knowing a little more of the truth. In Fresno, I dream of the day when there is a level of respect for our architects and accountability of our developers.
I’d like to call on Cliff Tutilian to accept the praise that you received for the International Trade Center as a sign that your architect did a fantastic job, drop you lawsuit and pay your fees in full.
*due to ongoing litigation, I did not try to reach either party for comment.
Posted in localComments (12)
Posted on 31 December 2009.
Inspired by an article that John King wrote for the San Francisco Chronicle, we decided to do a Decade in Review article to identify the 10 best buildings representing Fresno architecture. Our parameters were that the buildings be in Fresno County with construction completed between 2000 and 2009. The reviewers were Joe Moore, president of the Downtown Association, Shaunt Yemenjian, principal of spacio|design, and Kiel Famellos-Schmidt, curator of archop.
What we found in making this list, is that Fresno has a collection of high quality, well designed buildings that have significantly improved the built environment of an important metropolitan area. We had no trouble pulling together a shortlist of 20 exceptional buildings. Below you will find our top 10 list organized chronologically.
As Northern and Southern California continue to spread energies into the Central Valley, good design has come with the territory. The UCSF Medical Building anchors a prominent corner of the Community Medical Center Campus. The med‐student facility features a rotunda lobby with three‐story tall metal fins that are angled rhythmically as a nod to the notion of pages turning in a book. The rounded exterior walls along the street façade also set a rhythm in motion that gives the building an interesting street presence. The carefully designed sun shades which also embrace the curved streetwall provide shading from the summer sub for the space within. The exterior space created by the inward facing portion of the arc is designed as a pleasant semi‐public gathering space that can accommodate multiple social functions.
While the decade before brought us the internationally recognized Fresno City Hall – this decade brought about its younger cousin: The Fresno Yosemite International Airport Terminal. Equally progressive in its form and structure, the curved glass facade floods the entire Terminal with natural light. The exposed steel framing transcends the human scale enough to draw your attention and inspire awe yet is detailed and finished in such a way that does not make it feel overbearing. The reverse angle of the curtain wall gives the Terminal’s rounded fascia a form that begins to mimic the profile of an object in flight.
Embraced by the sweeping concrete surfaces that seemingly nurture the space within, your imagination is stimulated by the forms and surfaces even before picking up a book. Exceptional natural lighting on the inside with very little direct light make the interiors highly conducive to reading, studying and focusing your attention. With the circulation cleanly arranged around an entry foyer, the flow of circulation is comfortable yet interesting. A ‘Friends of the Library suite that is open after‐hours allows for the building to remain active through the evening as community space.
The historic Santa Fe Depot is a shining example of historic preservation in Fresno. Built in 1899 by the San Joaquin Valley Railroad (later to be acquired by Santa Fe) , the depot is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. The building was originally designed by W.B. Story, and the 2004 / 2005 historic preservation project was led by Fresno based firm Johnson Architecture. Before its renovation, the building had suffered from years of neglect. It was last used as a passenger facility in 1966, was converted into a railroad communications center, and eventually sat vacant for decades. The building is typical of the Mission Revival style, with clay roof tiles and beige stucco walls. A small porte-cochere and clock tower, with a large wrought iron clock face, dominate the Santa Fe Avenue elevation of the building. The $7 million renovation removed decades of insensitive patchwork additions to the building, and restored the building’s historic appearance and functionality as a working passenger rail station. It now serves Fresno passengers on Amtrak’s popular San Joaquin line. The project received the prestigious Governor’s Historic Preservation Award, an Award of Excellence from the AIA San Joaquin, and a Preservation Design Award from the California Preservation Foundation.
The later part of the 1990’s into the beginning of the 2000’s we saw substantial investment from the GSA on well designed federal buildings throughout the country. Fresno received that investment in design with the new Federal Courthouse. The building’s massing and intricate concrete paneled façade draws inspiration from rock formations in Yosemite National Park. The lobby is awe inspiring. The floor combines smooth and rough stones punctuated with granite boulders cut in half to form seating. Beyond the lobby the way finding, courtrooms, law library, and roof terraces all are well thought out, detailed and accentuated by local art.
Unitarian Universalist Church of Fresno is first and foremost distinguished by their commitment to sustainability and community. Those commitments are masterfully combined in a building that pays equal attention to interior and exterior spaces. The roof lines, material choices and color palate give the building a contemporary and earthy feel that sets it apart from other churches. This was Fresno County’s first LEED Certified building. The sustainable strategies range from drought tolerant landscaping, natural lighting and low water plumbing.
Clovis Fire Station No 5 opened in 2007 at 790 N. Temperance Avenue, just north of Highway 168, in the Clovis Research and Technology Park. It was designed by the Oakland, CA based firm Don Dommer Associates, The building uses a mix of industrial materials such as corrugated steel and concrete block in a contemporary context. The three bay garage area is highlighted by an open truss roof system supporting a gently arching steel roof. Clerestory windows provide natural light to the garage bays during the day, and at night creative up lighting highlights the exposed roof structure and interior in dramatic fashion.
H Street Lofts demonstrates an awareness of its context, and uses the adjacent railroad as inspiration for the façade. It also shows a curiosity and willingness to test new ideas and use materials in untraditional ways. The varying sizes, placement and treatment of the windows creates the feeling of moving boxcar. The building wraps around a courtyard to foster interaction of neighbors and includes a memorial mound landscaped with native plants to commemorate the property’s former life as an army induction center. In the past decade Reza Assemi has become synonymous urban living in Fresno. Of all the multifamily housing built in Fresno County during the decade, H Street Lofts stands out as the most authentic to the region.
Home of the Paul Shaghoian Concert Hall and the Dan Pasesano Theatre is one of the finest high school performing arts facilities in the nation, rivaling many collegiate and professional concert venues. The Shaghoian Concert Hall seats 750 on one level, in a traditional box configuration, featuring a stage that sits within the main body of the theatre, with no proscenium arch. The stunning interior of the Concert Hall is known for its superb acoustics, with wood paneled walls, and a 50 foot ceiling. Above the stage sits a a fully automated “acoustic cloud” structure that adapts to change the acoustic properties of the room. Additional adaptive acoustic treatments are designed in the upper levels of the hall, allowing the venue to be customized for performances ranging from choirs to orchestras to jazz ensembles. Adjacent to the Concert Hall sits the Paesano Theatre, a 150 seat “black box” theatre performance space. Both venues are shared by programs from throughout the school district. The exterior of the Performing Arts Center is constructed largely of concrete block and steel. Massive steel columns support the entrance to the lobby, a visual reference to the steel framed agricultural packing houses that still function nearby.
The balance and careful treatment of every surface of the building are enough to have made Christian Dior jealous. Built as an adaptive re-use of a fruit packing plant, the tapered planes spread outward in a way that resembles the opened husk of a fruit. With so many 20th century buildings addressing a single façade (dismissing the notion that buildings have context and multiple vantage points), the New Harvest Church campus captures your attention up front and sustains your interest as you move about. One can also appreciate use of modern technology in the CNC cut signage carved away from the webs of steel I-beams throughout.
Posted in design critiques, featuredComments (40)
Posted on 17 December 2009.
Iron Bird Lofts site plan
-
As some downtown buildings just begin construction and others get a new lease on life, the Iron Bird Lofts opens its doors.
-
I ran into developer, Reza Assemi, Wednesday morning on my way back from the Bank of Italy press conference. He was busy giving direction to the concrete sub-contractor at Broadway Lofts. However, he did take the time to talk to me about Broadway Lofts (more about that later) and the open house of Iron Bird Lofts.
-
Some of the units have passed final inspection and others are scheduled to have tenants move in on the 1st of January. The landscaping is also shaping up. Reza said he want’s to welcome prospective renter in to experience and possible move in to their newest creation.
I like this material juxposition
Posted in localComments (3)
Posted on 16 December 2009.
Tractors have been rumbling outside my office this week. I decided to walk over and snap some photos. I caught this one of Tommy Yoshioka, owner of Tokyo Garden, and construction worker look on as tractor pushes dirt around Granville Homes latest downtown project Fulton Village
I was also lucky enough to chat with Darius Assemi while he was there. He says they are just doing the underground work for now, until the plans for the buildings are approved by the City of Fresno.
Posted in localComments (4)
Posted on 18 October 2009.
The City of Fresno’s Downtown and Revitalization Department has made an announcement on the consultant it selected to complete the Downtown and Neighborhood Specific Plans. The announcement came through a note from department director Craig Scharton on the Department Facebook page. See full announcement below.
On Friday we announced that we have selected a team for the Fulton Corridor Specific Plan and Downtown Neighborhoods Community Plan. We still have to negotiate a contract with the firm. Then the contract will go to the City Council for approval.
The process to select the team was very thorough. We did a Request for Qualifications and read through twenty responses. Six were selected from that group. The six teams met in Fresno for an overview (lunch as Mezcal) and a walk down the Fulton Mall. They had a 2 hour FAX bus tour through the rest of downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods: Southwest, Jane Addams, Lowell, Jefferson and Southeast. The finished their day with a chance to network with local firms and professionals in the Sky Room at the Holiday Inn.
The submitted written responses to a much more detailed Request for Proposals. The Teams presented to a group of stakeholders made up of building owners, business owners and residents. They also presented to a group of City department representatives. The consensus choice is a led by a firm from Pasadena, Moule and Polyzoides (http://www.mparchitects.com).
We hope to have them in town for the first Council meeting in November.
See you at the DRUM meeting Wednesday evening.
Craig
Moule & Polyzoides, Architects and Urbanists has there office in Pasadena. It is led by principals
Stefanos Polyzoides and Elizabeth Moule. An 2005 indepth interview with Polyzoides can be found on www.terrain.org Most notable, both principals where founding members of the Congress for New Urbanism.
Hall Alminana Incorporated (with Johnson Architecture as local liaison)
MIG (with Joe Moore & designlab 252 as local liaisons)
Moule & Polyzoides with Impact Sciences
Opticos Design, Inc. with Dover, Kohl & Partners
*this list may not represent the entire team include on the 6 proposals.
We will continue to follow the Downtown and Neighborhood Specific Plans as they develop.
Join us at the next casual, lively, quarterly Downtown Revitalization Update Meeting sponsored by the City of Fresno’s Downtown and Community Revitalization Department. The DRUM takes place this coming Wednesday, October 21, at 5:30 pm at the Downtown Club at 2120 Kern Street in Fresno.
Related article:
Downtown Citizens Committee appointments announced
Posted in featured, localComments (5)
Posted on 12 October 2009.
.
It is very exciting that the endeavor to revitalize a Central Fresno park that began in March is becoming real. The story of how we got to the first donation is as interesting as the donation itself.
I had made the decision to propose building the park incrementally rather than all at once like Extreme Makeover: Park Edition as originally planned. While this does draw out the process, it also makes it more attainable.
James Collier approached archop about HandsOn Central California doing a Make a Difference Day at the park on October 24th. Now we had man power. So the challenge became, where do we start and what materials will we need?
Trees are a good start. We had developed concepts for plantings at the park with landscape architect Design Lab 252.
Those concepts are to make sustainable plant choices i.e. low maintenance and drought tolerant. We also wanted to change the atmosphere of the park. Currently, all the plant life is at the perimeter. Sounds of the road and freeway inundate the park. We want plant life within the park and to introduce nature sounds.
We propose placing a strip of trees in the break between the freeway ramps. This is one of the few locations that gets full sun. We also consulted with Fresno State professor of Biology and bird specialist Madhusudan Katti for trees that fit our parameters (low water, attractive to birds and wildlife).
We took Madhu’s recommendations to Intermountain Nursery in Prather. They specialize in drought tolerant native plants. After making our pitch to the nursery, we got our first park donation.
Owner, Ray Laclergue, gladly offered us five Desert Willow trees. Which are small with a beautiful flower. And 3 Valley Oak trees. They grow very large and can survive our intense summers.
With flowers and acorns from the trees, the park will be enlivened with bugs, birds and squirrels evoking a park feeling in this urban triangle.
Below is a view of the proposed changes to the park. A basketball court is in the foreground the trees are in the background. Thee trees we will be planting now are small (3-5 feet) but will grow over the years to fill the space nicely.
And a reminder, fall is the season to plant trees. If there is a hole in your landscaping, consider filling it with a native tree. Take a visit to Intermountain Nursery. Support this archop sponsor helping us improve the built environment in the San Joaquin Valley.
Posted in updatesComments (2)
Posted on 25 September 2009.
Today, September 25th, the City of Fresno announced the Downtown Citizens Committee appointments. This committee’s first meeting will be on September 29th. This meting will be open to the public and we’ll announce the time and location shortly. Below is the media release and list of appointees.
FRESNO – The City of Fresno today announced the members of a new community advisory committee, established to help guide future downtown development. The 21-member committee will assist with the creation of the City’s Fulton Corridor Specific Plan, encompassing a variety of unique project areas including the Cultural Arts District, Central Business District, South Stadium zone and Chinatown.
The committee includes a variety of downtown residents, business and property owners and others with expertise in real estate, planning, and community development. Eighteen of the members were appointed by Councilmember Cynthia Sterling, whose district encompasses the entire Specific Plan area. Mayor Ashley Swearengin appointed three members of the committee.
“This citizens committee is the linchpin of our strategy for revitalizing the urban core of our city,” Mayor Swearengin said. “The work they do will provide the foundation we need to create a vibrant and successful downtown in the years ahead.”
Members were chosen following an extensive outreach process, led by the City’s Downtown and Community Revitalization Department. Mayor Swearengin will participate in the committee’s first meeting on Tuesday, September 29thElliott Balch, Fresno’s Downtown Revitalization Manager, said committee members will be making a significant contribution to Fresno’s future. “Through the Fulton Corridor Specific Plan, the community will be setting new standards for development downtown and putting its vision for the area into law,” he said.
The names of committee members are included below. For more information on the Fulton Corridor Specific Plan, please contact Wilma Quan, Urban Planning Specialist, at 559-621-8371 or Wilma.Quan@fresno.gov.
Committee member Affiliation with Downtown and the community
Joyce Aiken – Former director, Fresno Arts Council; an original Fulton Mall artist
Alan L. Allen Retired contractor who has restored Fulton Mall buildings he owns
Rosemarie Amaral – Fresno Co. Dept. of Public Health, focuses on planning & fitness
Donavan Byrn – Cultural Arts District resident and Creative Fresno mural coordinator
James J. Connell – Executive Director, Poverello House
Raul De Alba – Family owns several Fulton Mall businesses and property since 1989
Morgan Doizaki – Mgr., Fresno Discount Mall; President, Chinatown Revitalization Inc.
Garrett Fahrmann – Senior Vice President for Operations, Fresno Grizzlies
Victoria Gonzales – Commercial real estate broker; former DTA director
James Haron – Owner of Haron Jaguar/Land Rover on Ventura Avenue
Eric A. Kalkowski – Co-owner of Kalkowski Construction, 10-year downtown business
Saundra King – Owner and manager of the Security Bank building at 1060 Fulton Mall
Gary Lanfranco – Third-generation owner of Cosmopolitan Tavern & Grill in Chinatown
Nancy Marquez – Board member and founding member of Cultural Arts District Assn.
Kelvin Morgan – Sr. Pastor, Harvest of Harmony Int’l Church; active in Chinatown cmty.
Roger Palomino – 15-year CEO of Fresno Co. Economic Opportunities Commission
Timothy Schulz – Construction supt. for several recent downtown mixed-use projects
Nanette Stockle – Office manager and co-owner of Mecca Billiard Supply for 20 years
Maribel Vera-Anaya – Owner, Joe’s Steakhouse & Grill on Van Ness Avenue
Brent Weiner – Third-generation owner of Procter’s Jewelers on Fulton Mall
Allysunn Williams – Director of Planning & Community Devt., Fresno Housing Authority
————————————————————————————————————————
This is a very interesting list with many well qualified citizens and some that we need to learn more about. One disappointing omission was anyone with extensive knowledge in architecture or historic preservation.
Look to www.archop.org for continued coverage on this topic and the development of the Fulton Corridor Specific Plan
Posted in featured, localComments (0)
Posted on 18 September 2009.
The topic for today is the Fresno Metropolitan Museum of Art and Science.
photo of Met reopening by Brad Polzin
The Met is the anchor of the Cultural Arts District and a prominent historic building. This is a very important building and will require architectural sensibility.
Council Member Westerlund’s report calls for a “lively mixed use project…complementing the Old Fresno Bee Building.” “…consistent with the principles of smart growth, sustainable development and consistent with the development principals anticipated with the new downtown specific plan.”
These are complex issues that require insight in those concepts as well as programing, massing, green space, streetscape and other design issues. The education and training of architects make them best suited to address these issues. In an email to the City Council Members I asked them to consider making an architect a required member of the teams submitting for the RFP.
I’m not yet sure how well received the email was, but nothing about architects was mentioned in the meeting. However Westlund said that the Craig Scharton’s team at the DCR Department would take the design lead and be responsible for the form, function and aesthetic. Those items are traditionally the realm of architects. While I’m confident in the abilities of the DCR Department and they have a very talented planner, Wilma Quan, on their team, they do not have anyone with architectural training or experience.
Chief of Staff to Adreas Borgeas, Steven Sotomayor, raised the point that “[Westerlund] does not want them to design, he wants a concept–RFP would call for conceptual designs.” and “…perhaps the words used were not intended in the way that you may understand them vs. a non design person would.” Either way I think it a valid question to raise is: what is the architect’s role in designing a revitalized downtown?
fiscal concerns
The City Council and City Manager conceded the the proposal will likely not recoop any of the $15 million debt the city now has to pay on the property. In fact it was mentioned that the land would like have to be given to the prevailing master developer selected in the RFP process. On top of that it was mentioned that the city may have to offset infrastructure costs waive or reduce developer fees, invest RDA funds and may even incur legal fees or be on the hook for the $1.2 million of Mechanic’s Liens on the title.
So what we have is a highly subsidized master developer project. Can the city in it’s current financial state afford that? And should this be a funding priority over the cities many obligations and public need?
These concerns where raised in the meeting by council member Brand and Borgeas. However, that did not effect a unanimous 7-0 vote to precede.
Would this be the wisest use of our taxpayer money? Remember back to the mayoral election when Ashley Swearingen’s policy on downtown was “back to basics” and that she “[doesn't] believe in ’silver bullet’ fixes for the area.” And In many ways her policy shied away from the master develope,r subsidy heavy projects. At the time the Forrest City South of Stadium project was the hot topic.
Maybe this is all the action of the City Council. However, the City Manager and Downtown and Community Revitalization Department seem attracted to what this project could be. But it seems with the focusing of Department resources in the Fulton and Lowell neighborhoods as well as the active process of the Downtown Specific Plan it may have too many balls in the air to successfully and completely accomplish them all. And this is not to mention a downtown wayfinding project and facade improvement program once touted as essential for business success and vitality downtown have been seemingly sidelined.
community vision
With all that said, I’m curious what you feel the community vision should be for the Met and the surrounding land. After all it is owned by the City of Fresno therefore we as taxpaying citizens have a stake in it.
The Met is the anchor of the Cultual Arts District. A dream of the Met now seemingly unattainable was a Michael Maltzan designed museum that covered the entire block. The massive model was on display the the Unbuilt archop in January of 2008. The design was controvertial, thought provoking and even award winning. I’ve heard for one source that Maltzen did not want to do the renovation portion of the project. They don’t have much experience with existing buildings. That may have been the cause of the construction cost overruns. But that’s all in the past now.
There is an interesting building on the block commonly referred to as Theatre 3. Its on the Local Register of Historic Resources and was built in 1926 as San Joaquin Power & Light Company’s headquarters using Spanish Revival facade.
View Larger Map
I’ve also found this building to be inspiring even in its state of decay.
View Larger Map
So what are you’re thoughts on any of the ideas above?
Posted in featured, opinionComments (6)
Posted on 23 August 2009.
Below is a first draft of a design for a new stage at archop park. It is a teardrop shaped concrete platform that is elevated 3 steps (18-21 inches). The existing park is in need of both some changes in elevation aswell as a central gathering place. This stage would fill that role.
This stage can be used by groups for music or other performances, anything the kids’ imaginations can conjure, a place to sit along the steps, it can also be used by skateboarders. The way the stage is shaped allows it to be used in two directions. A narrower 25 foot stage faces the grass and to the neighborhood beyond. A wider 40 foot stage faces into a roughly 50 foot by 90 foot open space in the park under the freeway.
Below is a photo I took this Saturday when I was at the park with Fresno City College students, Byron and Noam. We were there to take measurements and do some sound experiments to test the sound seat design. The stage as designed would be constructed over the paved circle at the left side of the photo.
This is a draft design so feel free to make suggestions.
Posted in featured, updatesComments (7)
Posted on 20 August 2009.
Wandering around downtown, you never know what you’ll discover.
For instance, I spotted this hole in the ground downtown. At the corner of L St. & Tuolumne. Two backhoes and a bobcat sit resting after the destruction. They’re going to have to dig their way out.
What was a building is now sculptural piles of broken concrete and twisted rebar.
I’d rather write about construction and what new designs are in store for Fresno.
This was the site of the Cornerstone Youth Center. I’m not sure if it was being used recently. Cornerstone Church is one of the largest property owners in Downtown Fresno. While I don’t know much of the facts, I offer these visuals to explore. Meanwhile I’ll try to find out if Cornerstone still owns the site and plans to develop a new building, or if they sold it to another party that will develop it.
This is what used to be here. Not really an architectural gem, so I’m not sad to see it go.
Demolition is a complicated concept for me. On one hand the process is somewhat beautiful to me. The is also the creative aspect of imagining what might go in its place. On the other hand, knowing Fresno development, the site may sit vacant for years, another missing tooth in Downtown’s smile.
What do you think should go in this building’s place? What functions should it have? How tall should it be?
Posted in localComments (6)
Posted on 18 August 2009.
CHICAGO, Aug. 18 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — Though housing values are still slow to rebound from the collapse of the real estate market, a new analysis from CEOs for Cities reveals that homes in more walkable neighborhoods are worth more than similar homes in less-walkable neighborhoods, pointing to a bright spot in the residential real estate market.
The report, “Walking the Walk: How Walkability Raises Housing Values in U.S. Cities” by Joseph Cortright, analyzed data from 94,000 real estate transactions in 15 major markets provided by ZipRealty and found that in 13 of the 15 markets, higher levels of walkability, as measured by Walk Score, were directly linked to higher home values. (download study)
“Even in a turbulent economy, we know that walkability adds value to residential property just as additional square footage, bedrooms, bathrooms and other amenities do,” said Cortright. “It’s clear that consumers assign a tangible value to the convenience factor of living in more walkable places with access to a variety of destinations.”
Walkability is defined by the Walk Score algorithm, which works by calculating the closest amenities – restaurants, coffee shops, schools, parks, stores, libraries, etc. – to any U.S. address. The algorithm then assigns a “Walk Score” from 0-100, with 100 being the most walkable and 0 being totally car-dependent. Walk Scores of 70+ indicate neighborhoods where it’s possible to get by without a car. By the Walk Score measure, walkability is a direct function of how many destinations are located within a short distance (generally between one-quarter mile and one mile of a home).
The study found that in the typical metropolitan area, a one-point increase in Walk Score was associated with an increase in value ranging from $700 to $3,000 depending on the market. The gains were larger in denser, urban areas like Chicago and San Francisco and smaller in less dense markets like Tucson and Fresno.
“These findings are significant for policy makers,” said Carol Coletta, President and CEO of CEOs for Cities, which commissioned the research. “They tell us that if urban leaders are intentional about developing and redeveloping their cities to make them more walkable, it will not only enhance the local tax base but will also contribute to individual wealth by increasing the value of what is, for most people, their biggest asset.”
An example of the effect of walkability on housing values cited in the study is found in Charlotte, NC. In a neighborhood with a typical Walk Score of 54 called Ashley Park, the median home price was $280,000. In a neighborhood with an above average Walk Score – 71 – called Wilmore, an otherwise similar home would be valued at $314,000. Controlling for all other factors including size, number of bedrooms and bathrooms, age, neighborhood income levels, distance from the Central Business District and access to jobs, “If you were to pick up that house in Ashley Park, and place it in more walkable Wilmore, it would increase in value by $34,000 or 12 percent,” Cortright said.
In the typical metropolitan areas studied, the premium commanded for neighborhoods with above average Walk Scores compared to those with average Walk Scores ranged from $4,000 to $34,000, depending on the metro area.
“‘Walking the Walk’ shows definitively what we’ve always believed – that homes in walkable neighborhoods continue to be a good investment, and are one of the simplest and most effective solutions to fight climate change, improve our health, and strengthen our communities,” said Walk Score founder Mike Mathieu. “Our vision is for every property listing to include a Walk Score: Beds: 3 Baths: 2 Walk Score: 84.”
The study included 15 metropolitan areas, finding a statistically significant positive relationship between walkability and home values in 13 areas: Arlington, Virginia; Austin, Texas; Charlotte, North Carolina; Chicago, Illinois; Dallas, Texas; Fresno, California; Jacksonville, Florida; Phoenix, Arizona; Sacramento, California; San Francisco, California; Seattle, Washington; Stockton, California and Tucson, Arizona. In one metro area, Las Vegas, walkability was correlated with lower housing values, and in Bakersfield, California, there was no statistically significant connection between walkability and housing values. Real estate data for these markets was provided by ZipRealty, a national full-service residential real estate brokerage.
“There are a number of trends that are reshaping the American Dream,” said Coletta, “and the value home buyers now place on living close to more daily destinations is one of the most important. Now, planning, zoning and development decisions have to catch up to consumers.”
About CEOs for Cities
CEOs for Cities is a national cross-sector network of urban leaders from the civic, business, academic and philanthropic sectors dedicated to building and sustaining the next generation of great American cities. For more information visit www.ceosforcities.org
Posted in nationalComments (3)
Posted on 14 August 2009.
The origin of the question “The last of the urban pioneers?” came a few weeks ago as I biked down Fulton to Milano. I noticed a new sign that intrigued me.
It was in the empty lot next to Tokyo Gardens. The building that once stood there was demolished by the City of Fresno due to structural instability. The absentee owner was billed. Since then, Granville Homes purchased the site. They plan to build a mixed use development there. It a great location, next door to the iconic Tokyo Garden and near amenities such as the farmers’ market.
A preliminary design of the project was submitted for Site Plan Review with the City of Fresno on July 6th 2009. The proposal includes 4 linear buildings with exterior stairs and walkways to access 2nd and 3rd floor units. Parking is in a gated lot behind the buildings. The two buildings with Fulton frontage are anchored by commercial space on the ground floor.
While we could discuss this design in more depth there is another side of the project and Granville’s urban developments that is more intriguing. This comes from an Aggregate of what I’ve heard from associates and a conversation with Darius Assemi and Jeff Roberts when they brought a conceptual design to the Tower District Design Review Committee. They are investigating who would live downtown and how many of those people are left. It seems they are concerned that they are reaching the cap of the demographic that rents units from them at Vagabond and H Street Lofts.
A question that seems to be plaguing their minds is: are there anymore urban pioneers to rent the apartments and commercial space. With millions of dollars on the line they are rightly uncomfortable with the “if you build it, they will come” concept. They also want to know what amenities residents would want and how much they’d be willing to pay for them.
To that end Granville is gathering up input from a website and focus groups with existing Vagabond and H Street residents. Two of the residents that participated were Floyd Sanchez and Hilary Malveaux. The dialog was directed by Darius Assemi. Floyd impression of the focus group goal was to “[collect] the resident’s input on things they would like to see in a new development planned for the corner of Amador and Fulton Street.” and “They seemed receptive to specific suggestions and requests. My perception is that overall they tempered their commercial concerns with the community’s concerns well. One thing I was surprised with was the scope of their ambitions with the Amador/Fulton project (next to Tokyo Garden). They plan to do a lot with the space.”
This is further reinforced by a Fresno Bee article on July 28th that states “Almost single-handedly, Reza Assemi is rejuvenating Fresno north of Fulton Mall.” But goes on to demonstrate that downtown housing development is still a lonely path.
It’s a pretty thought, says Robin Kane, a longtime analyst of Fresno’s real estate scene. And it may unfold like that someday. But for now, he says, Uptown, even with the addition of Broadway Lofts, will remain “a niche market.”
Kane gives Assemi high marks for backbone — “he’s got the courage and innovation to do it” — and savvy — “he understands [his] market well.”
Kane says that market is in large part the younger crowd, singles or childless couples, perhaps newcomers from larger cities who yearn for a taste of what they left behind — neighborhoods near taller buildings where it’s easier to buy a painting than a lawn mower.
But, Kane says, Uptown still is too raw to lure a broad array of renters, condo-buyers and major retailers, the engine of truly dynamic inner-city redevelopment. He doesn’t explain it in so many words, but he’s talking about the middle class, that big pool of workaday folks with money and a considerable fondness for security and convenience when it comes to choosing a place to live.
For that reason, Kane says, Assemi probably is destined for a while longer to be a pioneer in Uptown development.
I drafted this post over two weeks ago. And unlike many of the other 20+ drafts I have saved, this one has become more and more relevant. With the closing of Milano on the Fulton Mall, a safe haven for Fresno Creatives for over two years, we have to question our progress. There is even the real threat of urban pioneers becoming disillusioned or even loose the faith
Downtown is not even at a point where it can support small businesses. The discussion goes back to the chicken and the egg. To live downtown, people want big city amenities. To provide big city amenities, businesses need a strong customer base. I say we need eggs by the dozen and a full hen house at the same time.
So what are your thoughts? Have we reached the cap of Downtown Pioneers willing to make sacrifices to build an urban lifestyle in Fresno? What are the hang-ups? Are there any low hanging fruit not being picked?
When will downtown become mainstream? What is that tipping point?
So readers, what is needed for you to take the plunge and move downtown? If you’re an existing resident, what will it take to keep you down there?
Posted in opinionComments (32)
Posted on 04 August 2009.
Following a nation-wide search, Thursday July 30th 2009 City Manager Andy Souza named John Dugan to the post of Planning and Development Director for the City of Fresno. Mr. Dugan will begin work with the City of Fresno on September 1st.
While Mr. Dugan is amid what I can only imagine is a very busy transition from Deputy Director of Planning for the City of Los Angeles to Director of Planning and Development for the City of Fresno he made time to answer a few questions for archop.
KS: What had drawn you to apply for the national search for the new Director of the Planning and Development Dept. for the City of Fresno?
JD: I applied for the job in Fresno because I knew Fresno had many similarities to Oklahoma City of 10 or so years ago..a city with a good vision, plan and community spirit, but needing some expertise in implementing that vison and steering the spirit. I did that successfully in OKC. and it was very satisfying to see that community support projects and bond issues based on the proven competence of the mayor, city manager, and city staff. I can see that happening in Fresno and want to be a part of it. Also, the Planning Department in Fresno is very much like the one I managed in Oklahoma City and in Topeka before that, so I am familiar with its organizational and structural issues and various roles and responsibilities. It is key to good community development that planning and building, housing, and community development and codes enforcement be coordinated under one management authority and philosophy.
downtown Oklahoma City at night
KS: Are there any moment(s) in you career in planning that you are most proud?
JD: I am very proud of the planning of Oklahoma City over the last 7 years where we implemented over 200 policies of the 2001 Comprehensive Plan, including new sector and area plans, park plans, strategic plans, and a whole series of new development codes. Likewise, in Topeka, where a new economic development plan provided the rationale for a $20 million bond issue for construction of industrial parks and, subsequently, 5000 new jobs in a city which previously had a net job growth of .4% per decade. Helping Nordstroms develop a new store to revitalize downtown Norfolk, Va, and publishing the Monumental Core Plan for central Washington, DC also stand out.
KS: Are there any moment(s) that were less than successful that are good learning experiences that can be applied to Fresno?
JD: In Aurora, CO we developed two general plans for that city of 300,000 outside Denver. These plans changed the future of the city, but were completed with very little public input. They provided the rationale to annexe 100 square miles of vacant property and to expand the city by 200,000 person…In retrospect I would have done more to insure that more people were involved in that planning process.
KS: There are many ongoing and challenging projects being coordinated by the department (metro rural loop, SEGA, Downtown and Neighborhood Specific Plan, etc.) What is you strategy for digging into these existing efforts?
JD: An in-depth briefing from the Planning Department management staff is being prepared as I type this and will be ready for me when I arrive in September. I also plan to visit with the Mayor, City Manager,other department heads, city council members and planning commissioners to gain a good perspective on city issues. I also plan to meet with a cross section of community and development leaders to talk about their needs and issues.
KS: In the City of Fresno press release it said you “oversaw a complete overhaul of the [Oklahoma City’s] development codes.” Is that something that is planned for Fresno? And what is the starting point for that?
JD: I will be looking at all of Fresno’s development codes with an eye to their utility towards implementing the City’s adopted plans and policies and their efficiency towards furthering good development processes and products. In OKC that meant rewriting the land subdivision codes, sign codes, landscape requirements, zoning ordinance, and adding substantial architectural design reviews to key redevelopment areas. These and other initiatives were adopted with little controversy since I included all
stakeholders in a very collaborative process of ordinance review and revision. This takes time but is proven to be successful.
KS: I see you are a member of the APA. Will you be attending the APA California Conference this September at Tahoe? Will you be speaking in any of the sessions?
JD: I intend to attend the APA conference this fall if I can find the time!
KS: Have you investigated where in Fresno you’ll be living? If so, what are the qualities of that neighborhood that attracted you? If not, what are the qualities you are looking for in a neighborhood?
JD: I am looking for neighborhood qualities similar to what I think most newcomers to a city want. A quiet, clean, safe, green, pedestrian-friendly community close to neighborhood services, and full of kind, caring neighbors.
Please join me in welcoming John to our community. I’ll keep you updated on opportunities to meet him as he prepares to “meet with a cross section of community and development leaders to talk about their needs and issues.”
City press release: City Names Development Director after Nationwide Search
Fresno Bee article: Fresno hires new development boss
Planetizen 2006 Interview: Oklahoma City Planning Director John M. Dugan
Posted in freshComments (11)
Posted on 04 August 2009.
While searching for a news article from the Fresno Bee, I stumbled upon an amazing resource. It was a webpage called Super Signage Fresno, CA. I’ve had a little obsession about signage for the past couple of months.
Unfortunately, THE FRESNAN stole my thunder and posted this early today. He pulled it from my twitter feed when I discovered the site yesterday. Mike has become an archop groupie giving the site his Bloggiest Moment of the Week for two weeks in a row. With lots of link love, I’ll let this one pass. But Mike, remember, the built environment is the realm of archop, stray too far and we will school you.
Now that that little blog warfare is out of the way… Digging deeper into the site called www.agilitynut.com, we see that Deborah Jane has collected an amazing inventory of Roadside Architecture from across the country. You can search type and even browse signage by place. There are even a sampling some of my favorite architectural styles including Art Deco and Mid-Century. I have not read much about the author yet. So, I’m wondering what is her method is for collecting all of this data. But one thing is sure, we’ll continue to use it at a resource.
In the sampling of Art Deco architecture. I saw this building. While slurping some Pho you may have noticed this architectural gem called the Ivory Tower. “The Ivory Tower stands in the parking lot of the Mayfair Shopping Center. The shopping center was built in 1945 and has since been remodeled. This remaining structure was used as the Administration Building and might also have contained a clothes shop.”
Take some time exploring the site. I’m sure it not comprehensive, so what are your favorites? What was missed?
I’m amazing in how much articulation there used to be in signage. It was part of the architecture not just the lighted boxed with replaceable copy that is so prevalent today. How do we get back to that? Where are the missed opportunities?
Posted in local, nationalComments (3)
Posted on 25 June 2009.
Yesterday, our humble website strode clear over a milestone. For the first time we had over 100 visits to the site in a single day. By midnight, we actually had 184 visits. Our previous high was 79 visits, set on April 14th during National Architecture Week.
We built this website back in January with the help of Paprika Studios to feature the steadily growing archop exhibits. We also wished to introduce content that can’t be found in any other Fresno media. That is critiques and commentaries about Fresno’s built environment, uniquely focused on design. Other local media report on architecture and the built environment. The focus is often on economics or reported as a current event, rather than exploring the implication for the built environment. The question of ‘why does that building look that way?’ or ‘is that a good or successful design?’ or ‘what does this building say about us and our city?’ rarely get explored. Also the question of ‘who is the architect?’ is left unanswered.
In other cities it is common place for newspapers to employ architectural or urban design critics, much like providing readers with food critics or cultural arts critics. John King who writes for the SF Gate and SF Chronicle come to mind. That is not currently the case in Fresno. We intend to change that paradigm here.
The 1st critique I wrote was of Tower Tattoos. That was a success story of good architectural design. That was a small tenant improvement project that we were able to dig into details of the design. It was also the beginning of what I believe is essential for pushing our Fresno’s and the region’s built environment forward.In that post I wrote:
“We need to offer constructive criticism to buildings, architects, and developers that are not preforming. We also need to highlight and reward those that demonstrate high quality design and positively contribute to a healthy and vibrant built environment.”
On Tuesday I wrote what I hope is constructive criticism on the Granville Homes’ L Street Village project. The post was the main driver for site traffic yesterday. It launched our site traffic through the roof (would our roof be a flat glass roof, maybe a sheet metal butterfly roof, or even a green roof?). The post has drawn 247 visits since Tuesday.
This has got me thinking about the theory behind design critique and a driving theory behind the archop effort.
Architectural education is not a pat you on the back, everyone gets a gold star kind of education. It is rigorous and often merciless. Part of that gauntlet is to prepare us for a professional practice that is highly competitive, low in compensation, and high in liability. A profession where creativity, communication, and cool under pressure are equally essential.
Remembering those critiques, I was forced to completely reevaluate things I had accepted as fact. In that process I discovered so much about myself and the built environment we live in. And when you do something right it shines, like an awakening the world is new and makes sense. To impart that on Fresno would be a dream come true.
This is not an effort to be critical for the sake of being critical. It is not intented to be high brow. It is not out of spite or dislike for any person. We will strive to make these critiques constructive and accessible. Please call us out if that is not the case. This is a learning process for us all.
Let us work together toward architecture, landscape and urban planning that is: a steward to the land, authentically Fresno, offers all the amenities we require with the ease we desire, innovating the whole way through.
Posted in design critiques, theory thursdayComments (2)
Posted on 24 June 2009.
In addition to the L Street & San Joaquin Avenue proposal, also on Monday’s agenda of the City of Fresno Historic Preservation Commission was the proposed demolition of three properties on Broadway Avenue near Tuolumne. The three building were not on any historic registry. However, in a historic survey of the area they were found to be contributors to a potential historic district called Broadway Auto Row. The district included a strip of buildings that where once used as Car showrooms parts suppliers and repair shops.
The proposed demolition was brought to the Commission by owners Will Dyke and Reza Assemi. Reza developed a building across the street called Broadway Studios which features a restored facade containing 3 commercial spaces in front and 20+ artist work studios in the back.
The discussion by the Commission did get heated and even jumped to the controversial demolition by Will Dyke of the Nationally Registered Ice House Building. (1, 2, 3, 4) At one point architect and commissioner said “Downtown keeps getting it teeth knocked out.” Also as coauthor of Fresno’s Historic Preservation Ordinance, he disagreed with staff abou the intent of the Ordinance.
The only action the committee could talk was to recomend the the buildings are individually eligable for the Local Registry. That is a higher threshold than a building that is a contributor to a historic district. It was a 4 to 2 vote to not rocomend the buildings for the Local Registry. That vote cleared the path for Will and Reza to pull a demolition pemit for the three buildings.
I had written about the demolition of the two buildings next door to these properties. The building on the end was commonly known as the Nightmare Building. On Fresno Famous the post was title Eulogy of the Nightmare.
Posted in design critiques, opinionComments (12)
Posted on 22 June 2009.
Today is the City of Fresno Historic Preservation Commission meeting. There are several interesting items on the agenda, but I’d like to focus on one. Darius Assemi of Granville Homes has asked to meet with the Commission to present a conceptual plan for a mixed-use project at the corner of L Street and San Joaquin Avenue in downtown.
The report to the Commission states that Assemi is seeking Commission and public input prior to incurring additional research and expense. If you are not familiar with the Assemi family and Granville Homes, they have made substantial investments in Downtown, specifically in the Cultural Arts District.
I believe we are at a point in development in downtown Fresno that the question is no longer “development or no development?” The question now is “How do we measure successful development?”
Last week I posted theory thursday: authenticity alluding to some projects that do not evoke authenticity. I believe that this project falls into that category. Some of the things that triggered this is that the proposal included two styles which remind me much more of tract home models than that historic Art & Crafts and Italianate which they are named for. Below are the renderings included in the proposal.
Arts & Crafts
Italianate
While this neighborhood has many vacant even severely damaged buildings, several are historic. And the common style represented is Colonial Revival of various forms. Beyond missing the mark historically, I’m of the philosophy that building faux historic buildings near real historic buildings is actually detrimental to the built environment.
There are several reasons I believe this: The level of craftsmanship of the historic resources is unmatched by the economics of and process building today; the history a neighborhood should be a patchwork of different eras leading to today’s contemporary buildings. This should be easily read. By building cheap knock offs of yesterdays buildings today with foam details once hand carved out of solid wood history become very muddy for the passerby.
A contemporary building in this location should take cues from its surroundings. What is the scale of its neighboring buildings? Is there a rhythm set by how the land was parceled? What are the materials used? How do the buildings address the street? All of these elements can help a new building fit into the context of its surrounding without trying to mimic the past.
Beyond style, the planning of the project should be such it builds community. Street life is essential as is pedestrian focus. The plan proposed feels much more like a gated apartment complex. That does not fit the downtown context.
In summery, I encourage Granville Home to continue investing Downtown, however this proposed project marks a turn in the wrong direction.
The Historic Preservation Commission meeting was interesting. I was surprised how willing the commission was to accept the fact that the 3 historic buildings on the site of the Granville proposal would most likely be demolished. They were more interested in preserving the buildings on the West side of the street that were outside the bounds of the proposal.
I found some glimmer of hope in a comment made by architect and commissioner, Chris Johnson AIA “This is not the Historic DemolishionCommission.”
To Mr Assemi’s credit he was open to all input about the design. Comments from the public including a member of the Fulton/Lowell Design Review Committee, a former HPC Commissioner Cam Maloy, and even Historic Preservation project manager, Karana Hattersly-Drayton, were in favor of a third alternative not shown above.
The third design broke the long building in two with a pedestrian walkway and each building used detail elements pulled from different styles. Most notably was a center building that quoted the parapet detail from the Helm Home on the west side of the street. Granville is also planning to renovate the Helm Home.
I spoke publicly about some of the design concerns that I had that are listed above. My comments focused around authenticity, trying to preserve at least one of the building as an anchor to the project and some of the urban planning issues that needed to be addressed regarding activating the street with entry porches activating the street.
The Commission formed a subcommittee that will further advise Granville Homes about the design
Posted in design critiquesComments (4)
Posted on 18 June 2009.
Authenticity is something we strongly believe in for Fresno’s built environment.
What does Authenticity mean?
Authentic architecture is unique to a place, it seems to fit. The building fits in both it’s geographic place as well as it’s place in time. Olive Avenue in the Tower District is authentic. Our old brick buildings downtown are authentic. Fresno’s version of Mid Century Modern is authentic. I could go on.
What is not authentic?
A new building that poorly mimics historic Fresno architecture is not authentic. It actually does harm to the historic integrity of a neighborhood. Suburban buildings in downtown are inauthentic. Covering up an original facade is inauthentic. Examples will follow in later posts.
I’d like to make an analogy here. I’m sure you’re all familiar with CliffsNotes. These are pamphlets that summarize a book and give a student everything they need to write a shortcut book report for English class. They don’t read the book and they don’t have an original thought. That used to fly. English teachers however, have gotten hip to this and other internet shortcut sources. So if they’re on there game they’ll flunk the student’s shortcut paper.
I feel like development in Fresno, specifically downtown can be linked to this scenario. It seems as if some developers working downtown read the CliffsNotes about historic Fresno architecture and contemporary urban architecture and are trying to pass off some bad buildings on the Fresno public.
Unfortunately, the Fresno public is not yet hip to this. We’re like old teachers that don’t know how to use the internet. We are allowing this inauthentic shortcut architecture in our downtown. These buildings even get praise at times. Perhaps because we don’t know better or are afraid no developer will turn in their paper.
So this sounds serious right? Damage to the authenticity of our built environment is being done. And buildings are pretty permanent.
What do we do?
Well it starts here. We need to first determine what is authentic for us. Then we need to start grading these building designs being proposed. And we can’t be afraid the flunk some designs. Some may get their feelings hurt. But it will be a lesson to start doing their homework.
Specific examples of this idea will follow. In the meantime, what do you imagine authentic contemporary Fresno architecture looks like? What does it pull from the past? How does it respond to our climate? Where do it’s inspiration and concepts come from?
For more about authenticity see the Mayor’s Creative Economy Council report
Posted in theory thursdayComments (2)
Joe Moore: Julie, I'm curious to hear your comments about the...
Julie Federico: I thought the meeting was very good and helpful, a...
Brianne: Boo! Obviously the entire thing is horrible, but ...
Matthew Schwartz: Mr. Polyzoides presentation was rushed. Seems like...
Joe Moore: From what I've heard:
Form based code won't so ...
